Licenses and Permits Committee

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Meeting Title: Licenses and Permits Committee
City: Somerville, MA
Date Published: 2025-06-25

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AI Disclaimer: Summaries and transcripts above were created by various AI tools. By their nature, these tools will produce mistakes and inaccuraies. Links to the official meeting recordings are provided for verification. If you find an error, please report it to somervillecivicpulse at gmail dot com.

Time & Speaker	Transcript
Willie Burnley	Hello everyone, welcome to your June edition of the licenses and permits meeting for the city of Somerville city council. In pursuant to Chapter two of the acts of 2025 to meet this meeting of a city council committee will be conducted via remote participation, we will post an audio recording audio video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after. There's a meeting on the City of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. Clerk, can you please call the roll to establish quorum?
SPEAKER_07	This is roll call. Counselor Davis? Here. Counselor Pineda-Newfeld?
SPEAKER_10	Here.
SPEAKER_07	And Chair Burnley? Here. All right. We have three members present. That is a quorum.
Willie Burnley	Wonderful. We have a handful of items to discuss, a few public hearings, as well as checking in on our double polls throughout the city and the enforcement of the closed captioning ordinance. Planning to take everything in order unless any members, any city staff requests otherwise. But with that, Uh, first we're going to take up the minutes of the previous, uh, meeting. Uh, clerk, can you just read that number out?
SPEAKER_07	Yep. All right. Agenda item one, uh, approval of the minutes of the license and permits committee meeting of February 26th, 2025. Chair Davis or sorry. Counselor Davis. Yes. Councilor Panetta-Newfeld?
SPEAKER_11	Yes.
SPEAKER_07	Chair Burnley? Aye. That is three in favor.
Willie Burnley	Great.
SPEAKER_07	Minutes are approved.
Willie Burnley	Now we have a flammables license at 20 Steppes and Amman Street for 1,000 gallons. I will Declare this public hearing open and ask that any the applicant raise their hand with the raise hand function, if you are able. Okay i'm seeing a couple raise hands. Where can you. i'm saying more away sense and I would expect but. Like if you could promote those folks, give them the ability to speak. And for any applicants, please introduce yourself and state your connection to this application.
SPEAKER_04	Hi, this is John Springfield. Can you hear me?
Willie Burnley	Yes, we can.
SPEAKER_04	Okay. I'm with POA Preservation of Affordable Housing. I'm the owner of the new Clarendon Hill redevelopment.
SPEAKER_03	Tim Sinan, Icon Architecture. We're the architect on the project.
SPEAKER_02	Nathan Dahlke here. I'm with Tierney Development Services. I'm the OPM working for POA.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. And just for the record, could you state why y'all need these flammables?
SPEAKER_04	This is... Sorry, go ahead, Nate.
SPEAKER_02	No, go ahead, John.
SPEAKER_04	I was just going to say, sorry, this is John with POA. I believe it's just for the structured parking to park around 50 cars on the first level of the new building.
Willie Burnley	All right. This application has been in the committee for quite some time. So I would like to, to deal some recommendation to it in this meeting. To my colleagues, are there any questions for the applicant? Councillor Davis?
Lance Davis	Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the applicant. Just to make sure I understand, and forgive me, I am a relatively new servant on the Licensed Department, so I haven't seen this type of question come before. So just so I'm clear, the 1,000 gallons of flammables is gasoline that we anticipate being in the cars while they're parked in the garage? Do I understand that correctly?
SPEAKER_02	Correct.
Lance Davis	Okay. PB, Harmon Zuckerman, And and and the garage is is there is, is there any PB, Harmon Zuckerman, Any change to the to the garage plans since the that the other plans that were contemplated by the Council going back to land takings and all the other presentations and everything that y'all gave us a few years ago.
SPEAKER_04	PB, Harmon Zuckerman, Just changes changes to the CPA approved site plan. PB, Harmon Zuckerman, Very good.
Willie Burnley	Thank you.
Lance Davis	No further questions.
Willie Burnley	Sure. Thank you, Councillor Davis. Any other questions from councillors before I open it up to the public? All right, seeing none. Is there any members of the public who would like to comment on this application? Please raise your hands. Use the raise hand feature. All right, seeing none. I will declare this public hearing closed and ask that we take up the item and I put forward a motion to approve, to recommend approval. Any question or commentary on the motion? Okay, seeing none. Clerk, can you call the roll?
SPEAKER_07	This is roll call on the motion to recommend approval on agenda item number 2.1, ID 25-0500. Councilor Davis? Yes. Councilor Pineda-Newfeld? Yes. Chair Burnley? Aye. All right. That is three in favor, zero opposed, zero absent. The agenda item is recommended for approval.
Willie Burnley	Thank you to the applicants, and I will just say, and I'll repeat this moving forward, please just note that the license is not active until the full council votes on it and until it is in hand. So don't go fueling up those cars just yet. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02	Understood.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. Great. Thank you. Next item, please, Mike.
SPEAKER_07	All right, this is item 2.2, 25-1006, refer for recommendation, new garage license, 599 Somerville Ventures, LLC, 599 Somerville Avenue, 33 vehicles inside, zero vehicles outside, Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 6 p.m., Saturday, 8 a.m. to 2 p.m., Sunday, closed.
Willie Burnley	All right, I will declare this public hearing open and ask that any applicants present the raise hand feature so you can be remote to speak. Thank you. Please just state your name and your connection to the application.
SPEAKER_14	I do. My name is Lee Thomas. I am the OPM for Rafi Properties, which is the owner of the building.
SPEAKER_16	And hi, I'm John Bailey and I'm operations for Rafi Properties.
Willie Burnley	Wonderful. And can you just stay at the basic level? than what the need is for these vehicles.
SPEAKER_14	So this is a new building. The idea here is just to be able to get the license to operate the new garage that is located below that project.
Willie Burnley	All right, I'll open up to questions from my colleagues. Any concerns? This is Ward 2, I believe. Councillor Davis.
Lance Davis	Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the applicant for the explanation there. We've been hearing a lot about projects and buildings proposed by you folks at Rafi Properties. Appreciate the interest in the city and all that. Just to be clear, is this garage, this is a 33 vehicle garage. Is this... a part of the proposed buildings that are in the the proposed uh overlay that's uh currently so the zoning change for which currently for the council or is this a separate building that's being planned in the area this is separate okay just want to make sure that i'm clear on that and the public's there in that so um and and uh for folks and actually now that i'm thinking about it i'm second guessing myself five nine summer summer will have remind us where which building that is
SPEAKER_14	PB, Harmon Zuckerman, So that is the new labs I started building this class crossing the Plaza at forge on five and a nine summer villa. PB, Peter Vitale hecox, yeah okay.
Lance Davis	PB, Peter Vitale hecox, Okay, and that's the. PB, Peter Vitale hecox, The questions I have not want to clarify what we're talking about to make sure that I was clear and that and. PB, Peter Vitale hecox, I don't have any other questions, Mr chair.
Willie Burnley	PB, Peter Vitale hecox, Thank you. PB, Peter Vitale hecox, Just. More curiosity than not, through myself, I would just ask the applicants for this building and for the development there, did RAFI contribute at all to the sidewalk level bike lanes that are in front of 599? That entire area has changed with the development itself.
SPEAKER_14	Yes, that was part of our requirement and something that we wanted to do. So we were heavily involved with redoing that and creating the bike lane in public space.
Willie Burnley	Thank you for both the answer and for doing that requirement or not. I've been around there quite a bit and it's quite nice. I'll just say that.
Lance Davis	Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So your question made me think of a couple other questions, I guess I'll just put it that way. So first, And forgive me if this was brought up in a previous discussion. Can you can you remind us. So this is, as you said, this is the lab building across the forge bakery and and so 33 spots is underground. Correct. And can you remind us what other Sort of facilities for alternative modes, you have in the building.
SPEAKER_14	Um, so in terms of alternative emoji, are you are you referencing the new bus stop that we added in outside as well as bicycle facilities? Yeah, we we have bicycle parking as well for the requirements. We met that. And also EV EV charging parking spot spots.
Lance Davis	OK, and what was the requirements for the number of bicycle storage spaces?
SPEAKER_14	Off the top of my head, you're not a crawl. John, do you recall what the amount of bicycle parking? I believe it's 30.
Lance Davis	So 30 bicycle spots.
SPEAKER_16	Yeah, in the basement along with the garage. We did the bike lane outside. There's the new bus shelter that's also on some of the lab that was done. As the chair referenced, the new bike lane and the outdoor sort of parklet that we have in the front of the building. All of that was to promote the different mode chairs to get to and from the building.
Lance Davis	Yeah, very good. Thank you. I appreciate that. And then the final question is, and this is just more from my greater understanding, and I'll direct this to the representative from Rafi Properties. You may not be able to answer this. And if not, I understand. I'll ask the question in a different forum. But do you know whether particularly the motor vehicle traffic folks coming in and out of this building, was that factored into the calculations that were part of the traffic study for the larger proposed project down the street?
SPEAKER_16	No, it's separate. So this had its own mobility management plan separate for this building. Again, that other thing will be up for different votes in different hearings.
Lance Davis	Right, but when the traffic scientists or engineers or whoever it was that does the math for the traffic study, do you know whether the future estimates were based on this project having been built out with this garage?
SPEAKER_16	It was based solely on this building, is my understanding.
Lance Davis	Maybe I'm not asking my question right. And it may be because I'm not asking the right folks, and that's no fault of yours. when the traffic plan for the larger proposed project down the street was done. This is what we heard about in Land Use Committee last week. I'm curious, I'm not curious, I think it's important for folks to understand whether those numbers were calculated based on this building being completed. as far as the future state of that built environment.
SPEAKER_16	I would have to double check that, Council. I'm not sure.
Lance Davis	I appreciate it. Again, it's more of a big picture consideration and part of the overall conversation. If somebody can just get back to the Council on that question, it's not going to impact my vote tonight. Don't worry. But I think it's just important for folks to understand. So thank you for that. I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. And I will say just for the record, we are having these public hearings on the islands before us. Any other vote or process that is coming before the council, we will take up separately. Any other questions from colleagues before I open it up to members of the public? Seeing none. If there are any members of the public who would like to speak, please click that raise hand feature, and if you would like to speak on this particular application, now is your time. All right, seeing none, I will make a motion to recommend for approval. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, clerk, can you call the roll?
SPEAKER_07	This is a roll call on the motion to recommend approval on agenda item 2.2, 25-1006. Councillor Davis? Yes. President Bonita-Newfeld?
SPEAKER_12	Yes.
SPEAKER_07	And Chair Burnley? Aye. That is three votes in favor. The item is recommended to be approved.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. And as I mentioned after the first public hearing, until you have the license in hand, please do not act upon the license. This is hard fought wisdom that this council and committee has learned over the years.
SPEAKER_14	Understood. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Willie Burnley	Absolutely. Thank you. Okay. That brings us to the end of our public hearings, but to our third item. Clerk, could you read out both the ID number and the content of the item itself?
SPEAKER_07	Yep, this is a roll call for agenda item number three, ID number 24-1777 by Councillor Scott that representatives from Eversource, Comcast, RCN, Verizon, and any other service providers appear before this council to discuss transfers, pole removals, and any other overhead service.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. And just for context, for my colleagues who may have not been here in this committee for previous discussions of this matter, this was an item brought forward by Councillor Scott, who was following up on a years long concern by this council to reduce the number of double poles in the city. This is something that councillors for many years have tried to deal with, have gotten the run around, because the polls are owned by several different companies. And each company is not allowed to move other companies' polls. And thus, we now have before us a number of folks representing Comcast, RCN, and Ebersource, who I believe I would ask to raise your hands. I see some of you in the audience, but please raise your hand so you can be unmuted. And I will note also for my colleagues, we did receive a list of polls throughout the city. I'm not entirely sure if these were all the polls in the city or simply the double polls, but perhaps the stakeholders who are joining us today can be a bit more illuminating on what we have before us. With that, this is not a public hearing, but I'd love for the folks who are joining the call to introduce themselves, which company they work for, and then we'll get into some questions.
SPEAKER_00	Jackie Duffy, Eversource.
SPEAKER_15	Jason Wright, Community Relations at Eversource.
SPEAKER_01	Angela Holm-Barson, I'm Government Affairs for Comcast.
SPEAKER_12	Dennis Hayes is down.
Willie Burnley	Wonderful. And are you all aware of the list of polls that this council received, which should be attached to the agenda? Let me direct that a little bit. Jackie Duffy, nice to see you again. How are you? Doing great. Are you aware of the list of polls that the council received?
SPEAKER_00	This list is not the one that we have. Jason can talk better about where it came from. I think Jesse Moose gave us the list that we were working on today and for the past couple of days to figure out which ones were in engines. And we found a bunch of our polls were in engines and they were saying they weren't in engines. So that's what we were working on today. But this list I have not seen. Jason, have you seen it?
SPEAKER_15	I have not either, Councillor, but that's okay. I mean, we can certainly work through it or talk through from members of the committee, the process itself and how we go through or operate engines.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. And right before I pick up on Councillor Davis's hand up there, I will just note, One of the things I'm gonna be looking for in this conversation is obviously a little bit more understanding about what progress has been made since this item was brought forward. This item came before the council months ago. We had a previous conversation just to make sure that we could get all the stakeholders together to make sure that progress was being made. So love to hear more about that. Would love to get a sense for the committee and for the public of the process
Lance Davis	uh again even though we did speak about it previously in committee um but just with that in mind i will let counselor davis ask these questions thank you mr just a quick clarification question because i again i'm i'm not i wasn't part of the earlier conversations and you remember this committee when you say in in engines or in entrance or what is that word and what does it mean um for myself and any other folks who might watch this and don't know the terminology
SPEAKER_15	Yes, sure thing. I can take that. Engines is the National Joint Utility Notification System. In simplest terms, it's an online system. tool, if you will, where utilities can go in and enter or submit what we call tickets. They're known as double, we conduct what's known as a double poll survey sheet. And then those are typically handed to our clerk at Eversource. And then the clerk will enter said tickets into the engine system. Without getting into too, too much details, what that basically does is create, again, a ticket where we have an approximate address, a poll number, and that's where really Eversource goes in and they say, okay, our primary's been transferred at the very top. If there is a secondary, the secondary itself has been transferred, and then the overhead supervisor will say, okay, NTG, what we call, or next to go is Comcast, is Astound, is Verizon, or whomever is on that poll, in no particular order. And my understanding is that the utility that's next to go will receive kind of an alert, notifying them that they're next to move on said pole. And the goal being that we always start from the top and then work our way down. Other attachments on the poles could be streetlights that the city may or may not own, wires from fire departments and some other infrastructure. But really, those are the main ones. Hope that adds some clarity.
Lance Davis	It's very helpful. Thank you through the chair to you. I appreciate it. And so my understanding, so when we're looking at this, well, when we're looking at a list, whether this is the correct list or not, but let's, you know, the idea is this is a list of double poles where, and it's sort of tracking, you know, the various utilities from the, you know, the old scenario to, you know, whatever the, I don't know whether you're moving off of one of one pole into the new one or whatever the case may be sort of who's who's got the next step of the job to ultimately remove the double pole presumably what where you know we have the pull pole as being the next job type where that's i assume that's the end of the line is that that's the that's the the sort of purpose and the operational function of this this sort of list correct
SPEAKER_15	Yes, that's correct. We see a poll that sets Eversource Q saying that the poll itself is, in essence, naked, for lack of a better word, but there's no other attachment to it. So that's a cue for us to come out and to poll the poll.
Lance Davis	All right.
SPEAKER_15	Thank you very much. I appreciate you getting me up to speed. Absolutely, Councillor.
Willie Burnley	Wonderful. Since I'm not seeing any other questions at this point, I'll just ask... What progress have we seen in terms of the removal polls since we last had this discussion? And are any of the polls on the list that we have no longer double polls?
SPEAKER_15	Yeah, it's a little tricky for me to talk through in real time the list itself, but what I can say or what I will say is looking at the prior list that we've had, I would approximate maybe give or take at least a dozen polls have been pulled. Again, that's really a ballpark number itself. What I will say is shortly before this meeting, we did have our clerk poll next to go as an engines. And I think we're in the ballpark of probably six pending transfers, meaning the poll has been set, Eversource is, it's on us to move next. I believe there are approximately seven to 10 pole poles. So I would say that once those, in essence, those pole poles are removed, then, you know, to me, that's checking the boxes, another double pole that's been removed from the inventory on the street.
Willie Burnley	Quick follow up to that. And I think I have a question that's a bit off from there. How long between the pole getting on this pole next to go list till generally does it take until it is fully removed?
SPEAKER_15	I think that could vary. That varies greatly from, I want to say, months to could be as high as years.
Willie Burnley	Good to know. I certainly hope it is not years for all seven of those fours, of course. In Another question for you, and frankly, for each of these companies, would you be able to send to the council or to our clerks, really, who can then send it to us, your lists that you're operating off of for these, for which double poles you're aware of?
SPEAKER_15	Yes, what I will just to add to that, we have or we coordinate with the city as well as other utilities very closely, especially with the list that we're operating from. Loosely, I will say engines is the governing tool was provided to us by the city. I think, you know, working with Jesse in his daily drive around if you will in the city if he sees a double pole he'll make note of it and put it into the spreadsheet that being said again engines is the really the governing tool that's used that also being said you know we have I know Angela very well we've worked with Astound Verizon and others so when there's a pole that may be chunked chunked being it's cut out from the bottom or you know we'll say a priority every double pole is a priority don't get me wrong but if there's a you know, a poll at a busy intersection or has been, as we discussed there, for perhaps too long, we'll coordinate with other utilities to say, you know, the poll number, it's been set. We've been off of it. Primary, secondaries, you know, utility X, you're next to move. And more often than not, they're very responsive to that. So I just would like to highlight that again, whether it's the city itself or a resident contacting us. We do coordinate and work very closely with our partners both at the city itself as well as with other service and utility providers.
SPEAKER_01	I'd just like to echo Jason's point. We're essentially working off the same list. It really just is a matter of, you know, who enters when they've moved their wire off the pole. For Comcast, we don't have the ability to remove any of the poles as we aren't the owners. But as soon as it comes up that it's our turn to move our wires off the pole, I mean, we try to get to that as quickly as possible. But again, to Jason's point, this is a collaborative effort. There's a lot of communication going on. and when there is a particular uh problem or a poll that either presents you know it's a particular eyesore or or deemed as a traffic hazard um i i would encourage anyone on the council to bring that to our attention i appreciate that and uh and i appreciate counselor scott uh who
Willie Burnley	through this order really devise a way to keep that collaboration happening in this case in a public sphere. Again, this is an issue that the council has been concerned about for a long time, specifically because community members have brought it to our attention because there are chunked poles that sometimes seem, even if they aren't, some of them certainly seem like safety hazards and I'm appreciative of you all, making the time to continue this conversation, which just for spoiler alert, this will not be the last time we have this conversation. I plan to keep this in committee unless one of my colleagues is adamant that the work is done. Councillor Davis.
Lance Davis	Thank you, Mr. Chair. Brilliant setup for the segue into my comment, which is that, and I suppose in terms of, you know, whether it's this item or maybe a more specific item based on what I'm about to say, but either way, let me ask first before I make the request, you know, given the database that you have, that you've described here, the engine database, what would it take to, you know, at some periodic timeframe report, whether it's quarterly, annually, whatever, present to the council something that would be more easily digestible to show here's the double poles that we've removed from the last time we had the conversation. And I ask that because, let me take a step back now, As the good councilor at large, Chair Burnley noted, this is a conversation that's been going on for a long time. From the day I stepped onto the council almost 10 years ago, my predecessors were talking about double poles and seeing what we can do to get rid of them. I imagine that new double poles... are created on occasion for safety reasons. You need to shore something up or whatever the case may be. I don't know, but I assume that's probably the case. And so I very much appreciate y'all coming here, very much appreciate the explanation of the information. We can clearly see how this is the process and looking even at this static list, whether it's the right, the current accurate list or not, now that I understand what it is, I can see how it how it is a living document that facilitates the removal of these polls ultimately. And so that's great. I think it might be, and let's frame it in the way of like an even better story to tell, an even more clear story to tell to the next time we have this conversation, if it's possible to prepare something without too much extra work, having this current status would be good. But also, since the last time we had the conversation, here's the double polls that have since been completed and the poll has been pulled, right? If everything you're saying here and you're explaining it is true and I have no reason to believe it's not, let's tell the good story, right? Let's put some numbers to the actual action so folks can see, yep, it's happening. You've explained it's a lot of work. There's a lot of moving parts, so we get that. But I think if there's a way to include a spreadsheet or something that shows the completed the completed tickets, I think that would be really helpful. It'd be good for folks to see the definitive end result of all the work that you're all doing to address this issue, which is a big concern for a lot of folks. We hear about it a lot. Is that something that would be reasonable to request for like a future meeting?
SPEAKER_15	Chair Max Fennell, Yes, yes, of course, what I may suggest and I entirely defer to the Council on what they would like to see you know methods that i've have a portfolio of cities and towns we've we've had quote unquote working groups where we've kind of sidebar. Chair Max Fennell, You know, in a conference room and. and work through listings together. We can certainly go back to January 1st, but I think at least in my mind, it might be productive to maybe we take this list that's in front of us now and we run it and maybe reconvene in another six months and say, since our last meeting on June 25th, this is the progress that we've made. Again, we can certainly go back to January. If we want to tell the story of the locations of the polls that have been pulled and replaced, certainly happy to do that. Or we can start fresh from today on this list and re-examine progress made six months from now. Both clearly work, but I guess I would defer to the council counselors on what you all would prefer.
Lance Davis	Um, so Mr. Chair, if I might follow up, um, through you to Mr. Wright, thank you for that. Um, that, that sounds great. I was actually thinking the exact same thing, like maybe, uh, uh, you know, twice a year, um, check in and unless other folks feel strongly that it should be, you know, a quarterly, but, you know, given all the other stuff that we have, all the other business we have to, to take care of that, that may be not, maybe not the right, uh, right. Um, you know, sequencing, um, but, but not sequencing, um, You know what I mean? A number of times a year. It's been hot the last few days. So that was what I was thinking was twice a year, if other folks agree. And as far as going back, you know, yeah, it might, at least for maybe the next meeting, it might be nice to see, you know, go back one or two periods or whatever's easy. You know, if one period is easy and going back two periods would be not, then fine. And my thought would be like, then, you know, then I think to the extent that we have continuity, you know, at least, and we'll have the legislative record, you know, we can see like, all right, what's the pace? What's the, how is this working? I think that if, you know, if we see that there's still concerns, maybe then, you know, a working group or that sort of thing might make sense. And I certainly don't want to tell the administration how to do their job. So if folks in the administration feel differently, then I 100% would defer to them. But my thought would be is you've clearly described there's a process as long as we see that that's working and there aren't other unrelated concerns coming up. I think that strikes me as a good way to kind of track this. I think it'd be really useful and I'd love to be able to point folks to check out licenses and permits on this date. You'll see the list of the polls that they've completed, the ones they're working on. I send folks links to these meetings frequently because then you've got that agenda, that item attached agenda, and they can see it themselves. As I said, let's tell the good story, all I do in the work, if we can sort of present it in a way that shows that a little more clearly, I think folks would appreciate that. So I agree with that approach, Mr. Chair, defer to my colleagues on the right way to go forward, but that was my thought. Thank you for the time.
Willie Burnley	Mr. Potea?
SPEAKER_06	Mr. Chair, through you, Michael Pottier, Licensing Operations Manager, just a brief point of information. The spreadsheet that's being shared on the screen right now was submitted earlier to us today by a representative from Verizon, who I do see as an attendee with a hand raised, if you want to recognize them, just to let you know.
Willie Burnley	Yes, please. Please recognize them so they can give us a little bit more context on this list in particular.
SPEAKER_13	Yeah. Hi, this is Ellen Cummings. Can you hear me? We can. Thanks. I couldn't get unmuted. Thank you for giving me the signal to be unmuted. I'm the regional director of state government affairs for Verizon. I actually pulled this list this morning from Engines, so it is a correct double poll list. This does indicate every double poll that is in the city right now and which state it's in next to go. means who the polls waiting on to move the balls in their court. I would be happy and can send this list over to you whenever you'd like it. It takes me a second to just pull the list. So it gives you an idea. I apologize because I'm in a rest area on the Mass Pike, but if I remember correctly from what I pulled today, I think there's about 110 double poles right now that are sitting in your city. And in various areas, again, with various folks who are next to go on that poll, which would, again, move the poll over to the next party. And at the end of the day, once everybody's off that poll, I go last. Right now, there are no double polls in the city for me to take action on. But when they do get to me, I do my transfer and we take the poll away. So. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have as well.
Lance Davis	Councillor Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I appreciate y'all indulging all of my questions, some of which may be, you know, somewhat coming from a position of lack of information. And if it seems that way, it's because it's true. So I appreciate it. So that's good to know. Thank you for that. And I appreciate you making yourself available for this meeting, even while you're in transit there somewhere. So I'm very grateful for that. So first, just to, this is, so this list is four pages, I believe, the version that I pulled up. Separately is correct. You mentioned there's about 100 polls or so. I see a number of polls, if I'm looking at the column that says poll number at the top, that there's telco poll number, elco poll number, but excuse me, it looks like a number of those are the same number. So does that mean it's the same poll, even though the street name might be different, like that little corner or something?
SPEAKER_13	Yeah, so you basically, you'll go over, like it's listed by street, and then there's also the poll number. It could be, you know, depending on what street it's on, a poll number could repeat, for example. You definitely would see that. It's not the same poll. So, like I said, I believe there's 110 that are on this list. So there's, those are all
Lance Davis	different there's no um they're not at the same pole if you know what i got okay thank you again may have dumb questions but um nope no no no problem happy to answer i say that i've come into a position of absolutely encouraging and loving dumb questions because they're often the best um i i in my humble opinion that's the one who's asking them right now Okay, thank you for that. Now they look at the numbers, of course, that makes sense because they're all just these low simple numbers. And so that should have been obvious to me, but there we go. Thank you for that explanation. And then the other thing, this is just, again, another, so I can understand going forward. So my colleagues or future colleagues can understand going forward. And so members of the public, when I point them to this meeting, they can hear the answer. Whomever can do it, I can probably figure out most of these, but like the... the names of the of the entities the next to go member can someone just run through like what those all stand for just not that we're going to like go chase anybody down or anything but just for our own sort of understanding of of who we're talking about with those um acronyms yeah sure i'm trying to
SPEAKER_13	going off a tablet. So I'm trying to make it bigger so I can see it. There are some that like, you see cty SMV. That is that belongs to the city. It could be like a city fiber. I could tell definitely for sure what it is by pulling up the engines tickets if I was sitting in front of my laptop right now. Um, You know, NST, SOM, that's Power, that's Jason. There's RCN, that's pretty self-explanatory.
Lance Davis	Sorry, forgive me for the interruption, but through the chair. So NST, is that, is the acronym, that's Power, is that, is that Eversource? Is that, what's the?
SPEAKER_13	That's Eversource, but that used to be, it used to be NSTAR, right, Jason?
Lance Davis	NSTAR, yeah, oh, right, right, right. Okay, NSC answer, so that's good. So that would now be Eversource.
SPEAKER_13	CM, one that says like CMT, CMCT, SP, Comcast, yep.
Lance Davis	Comcast, okay. And NPSL?
SPEAKER_13	NPSL, and MP is a non-participating. That means they either didn't register with us So one of the things that we can do on this is we will dive into it a bit farther. We'll go and look, for example, if there should be when cables go up on the lines, they should be tagged. In some fashion, a lot of them just, they actually have a tab at one point with a colored, with initials and a phone number on it, right wrapped around the cable in some points. So we will go out and we'll investigate to try to figure out who that actually belongs to. So we can say, hey, first of all, you need to be on record and using engines. And also you need to move on these cables and, for example, when that happens.
Lance Davis	Okay, so through the chair, so any listing that says non, for that NPS, non- NPs usually non-participating, yes. But that, there could be multiple NPSLMA, then they may actually be different entities because that's the indication for just anyone. It could be.
SPEAKER_13	A lot of times they are the same in a municipality. There's some fire alarm that I noticed that are in here.
SPEAKER_12	Those could be abandoned, although they still need to be removed.
Lance Davis	Let me ask through the chair to you, Ms. Cummings, because I don't want to take up more of your time and the rest of the committee's time here, but does the database, can you print a report? Is there a sheet? I'd be happy to.
SPEAKER_13	I don't know if you'd like me, I'd be happy to have a conversation, give a call to whether it's, for example, your DPW commissioner or someone else and go through the list, go through the attachees and their... you know, their member numbers, initials, be happy to have a conversation if, you know, who you'd like me to speak to.
Lance Davis	So let me suggest this, and I'm purely just a suggestion through the chair. I appreciate that. Like I said, I want to be, you know, considerate of your time. It is... would it be possible to just provide, you know, and maybe it's just the next time you do the submission, so it doesn't have to be, but whatever is easy. It's like just essentially a glossary, like a list.
SPEAKER_13	Sure, I can give a list of, yeah, who they are.
Lance Davis	Yeah, I think that, and then if it could be to the clerk, if that could be submitted to the clerk And we could attach it to this item or maybe we'll submit it as whatever we need to do so that you can see it. Right. I'm just I'm all about transparency. Right. Like I got a problem. I think if people have information, then a lot of times that lowers the temperature. Right. And then I think that is really helpful. So I just try and if we can if we if that's something that could be done with that again, I don't want to create a project.
SPEAKER_13	No, that is not a big deal for me at all.
Lance Davis	I think that would be really helpful. And again, it's something that we can then point folks to. And especially if we do then set this up as a regular meeting, if there's any new entities or whatever the case may be, we can maybe flag those. But otherwise, just so folks understand what we're looking at, again, You know, my goal is to is to, like I said, kind of lower the temperature theme of the week for folks who are concerned about this and upset and just to, you know, see the process, understand how many parties involved, understand, you know, that it is getting worked on. I think when when when people have that level of transparency, more often than not, most oftentimes, OK, cool. I get it. Thank you. That sounds good. Glad they're working on it. Right. And then it's not an issue. But then, you know, somebody else moves into the city or, you know, like it's to the extent that we can sort of create a record here. I think that would be super helpful. And and then, you know, reduce the number of, you know, calls and tickets that you all may get individually. We can say, hey, look, we have this conversation twice a year. Go check out the last one. The next one is going to be in this time frame. Come tune in. You're going to find out everything you need to know. If you got specific questions about something, then, of course, there's means for raising a new condition or whatever that might be. Through the chair, does that sound reasonable to y'all? Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the time. I'm not trying to take over the process here. I'm just kind of as like the new guy in the conversation. I'm trying to maybe bring a little kind of my perspective on how this might be really helpful to our constituents in a way that makes the best use of efficient use of everybody's time.
Willie Burnley	um so that we can leave these good folks to uh to doing the work that we ultimately want them to do which is uh which is addressing all the stuff so thank you again mr chair for the time no problem councillor davis and uh don't uh feel like you're too far behind we've only really had one conversation of this kind in in committee before and the list that we were operating uh on last time was quite different uh than the list that's before us This is the first time I'm, for example, seeing these acronyms, but I can tell you what, by the next time that we have this conversation, I will have a map dedicated to where these polls are. So we can have a sense of if there's a concentration in particular awards, if there's a, I'll leave it at that. And hopefully that glossary will work. be available next time so that we have just a little bit more context for this moving forward. But personally, I think that that's a good place to leave it on. But I do want to just give my colleagues one more chance for a bite at the apple. Any more comments there on the item? Okay, seeing none we're going to keep this in committee, so we can come back to it likely in. Either the beginning of next year or at the end of this year, depending on the will of the Council and our own schedules. But I once again thank you all for showing up tonight, particularly for the folks who are running around trying to do. either your work or trying to just get home really appreciate it. And hopefully this will, this can just be a fruitful conversation and collaboration that ultimately sees that list go from 110, ultimately down to a much, much more manageable number. All right. And with that, we're going to, keep this one in committee and move on to the next item.
SPEAKER_15	Thank you, councilors. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Lance Davis	Thank you all.
SPEAKER_15	Thank you.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. And please send us any additional information you have. Now, clerk, we're on to our final item. Can you read out the ID number and the description?
SPEAKER_07	Yep. This is agenda item number four. ID number 24-0107 by Councilman Burnley, Jr., that the Director of Economic Development update this Council on efforts taken to inform relevant business owners about the newly implemented closed captioning ordinance.
Willie Burnley	All right. And with that, I see Director Tarni here. I will The floor is yours to respond to this item, and then we'll open it up to questions and comments from the committee.
SPEAKER_09	Good evening, everyone. I wanted to give you a brief update on what's been going on with closed captioning and also a little bit about sort of just this moment that the business community is in. So I will be honest, we have not done that much in terms of outreach on closed captioning. The licensing staff have sent out to all of our licensed restaurants information about the change that occurred with the new law. But that's really the extent of the outreach that we've done. From Economic Development's perspective, this ordinance is a little bit tricky for us to be doing outreach on. Because there isn't an enforcement side of it, if we are then the first ones to convey that information, we are going to be seen as an enforcement of that ordinance. And we are not the enforcement agent. As we've talked about in the context of other topics, we are carrots folks. We are not stick folks. And so it's become a little bit tricky for us to figure out how to navigate implementing this ordinance at this particular moment in time. And that's where I want to pivot a little bit to tell you all just a little bit about what we're hearing from our business community. Our business community at the moment is particularly our small businesses, and that's who we're worried about with the implementation side of this closed captioning ordinance. are really feeling a tough pinch when it comes to regulation and feeling like the eyes are on them. When city staff show up in a business at this particular moment in time, there is an immediate fear that you are someone official and therefore you might be affiliated with immigration enforcement. Immigration enforcement is hitting several businesses as well as every business across the country. And so there is really an importance of trust in our staff that we are trying to really sustain right now and focus on that relationship and ensuring that we are seen as a trusted folks. So when we are showing up, that they know our faces and that they know that we are coming with resources and connection and support. That makes this moment even harder for us to have these conversations around closed captioning because there isn't the mental bandwidth in our business community to be receptive to this implementation of something that is not top of line. Our businesses are grappling with the immigration issue affecting our immigrant owners, but also, of course, every business that has immigrants on their staff, and that is a wide range. And as the policies shift in Washington, continues to be a broadening range of folks who are affected. So when we're coming and we're talking with them, we're really nervous about how to engage on this particular topic. We know it's an important constituency that we want to serve by adding closed captioning in our publicly available televisions. But we're also trying to navigate these relationships with those business owners, many of whom have televisions not for their customer, but for themselves. And so we're trying to figure out what the right pathway here forward is. At the moment, the best that we really think that we can offer is to work on a case by case basis as requested. We're not sure who those requests would be coming from. Again, without that enforcement side of this picture spelled out. If someone does have a complaint, if it comes from a clinician on disability, again, we're happy to help navigate the relationship with the business owner, help them figure out what it looks like to turn on closed captioning, how to get there. But in terms of broad outreach, we're really struggling to figure out how to get there at this particular moment in time in a way that isn't going to sour our relationships with the small business community.
Willie Burnley	All right. Just, again, for some context on the item, it is my item. This is something that I brought up quite a while ago. I've been sitting in committee. But let's say, well, I think I brought it at the beginning of the year, actually. I'm not looking at the date it was introduced specifically, but I know that there were conversations had before the beginning of this year. At that time, the conversation of the difficulty of implementation was not related to ICE, at least not explicitly, or the federal government as it was constituted at the time. But there were similar concerns around who's the carrot, who's the stick, maintaining relationships with the small businesses. The fundamentals have not changed on this conversation, I guess I'm getting at. The context in which it exists as the context of everything that exists now in politics and government has shifted, of course. But I want to acknowledge both of those things, which is there was, I would say, some hesitance and potentially confusion about how enforcement and implementation would work prior to the current federal administration. I can't say I'm surprised to hear that the occupants has made this conversation more difficult because that's in the White House, occupant of the White House, because that tends to be how that goes with most issues that I can think of. But I guess to get to a question, the ordinance itself does, somewhat empower the Commission for Persons with Disabilities to take a more of a role in inciting complaints, let's say. Has your office had any chance to speak with the commission about how they would like to see outreach around this or what they're seeing in the community?
SPEAKER_10	We have not heard from the Commission on Disabilities about this being a top line priority at the moment either.
Willie Burnley	Let me restate the question, I guess. Has your department had any conversation with the Commission for Persons with Disabilities about the ordinance?
SPEAKER_09	Not since it was being drafted.
Willie Burnley	OK. Well, I would, again, this is a suggestion. not a order or a law in and of itself, I would suggest reaching out to see if they have any thoughts or feelings regarding this ordinance. Both from a necessity standpoint, but also from a standpoint of the availability of post captioning throughout the community. I've certainly seen some businesses take to this pretty simply and pretty easily. I've certainly also seen businesses that are hesitant to, or reluctant to, or I'll say resentful of the idea of any additional impositions on them or their operations. I have to imagine that there is some role or body currently within the city that could continue to do outreach around this. I guess another question, and then I'll open it to my colleagues if they have anything they'd like to ask or add. How often is the department planning to include information about closed captioning in their outreach to local businesses? I know when the ordinance was passed, there was a a large mailing, but are those kind of mailings annual? Do they simply happen when new businesses open? What's the process around that?
SPEAKER_09	Michael Platera might be able to better speak to this because those mailings were done as part of the annual renewal process for licenses. Again, I think one of the things that's ultimately challenging about this is the scope of the televisions that we are talking about. Most of the business, like most of the public-oriented businesses, public-oriented televisions are going to be captured in that list, but definitely not all of them. And I think this ends up being the layer of challenge on the implementation front of how to get that out there. We aren't licensing televisions, as far as I know, but maybe we are. And apologies if I don't fully understand the whole picture. But again, from our perspective in economic development, our role is to help the business navigate that process. The enforcement side of it would come through licensing or inspectional services.
Willie Burnley	Mr. Chair, through you, yes.
SPEAKER_06	As you referred to, we did send an email to all of our licensees as they existed on December 28th of 2023, right before the ordinance went into effect. When we issue new licenses, we do not specifically reference this portion of the ordinance or any portion of the ordinance in particular, and we do leave it to businesses themselves to familiarize themselves with the local laws, state and local laws. There is a mechanism specifically written into the ordinance that allows folks to submit complaints to the licensing commission through one of two forms that we have linked on the licensing commission website. I just went through them as we were speaking. I do not see any complaints with regard to this ordinance. having been filed since we opened up those forms back in 2023. If we were to receive such a complaint, we would absolutely refer this to the chair of the Licensing Commission for follow-up based on their judgment. So happy to answer any of the questions about that from the Licensing Commission side.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. Any comments or questions for my colleagues? Councillor Davis.
Lance Davis	Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Director Narconi for that information. I appreciate the conversation. Certainly appreciate the concerns. Do wish that, you know, maybe there wasn't a feeling of sort of friction or tension around this issue. But, you know, I just wanted to weigh in just to reiterate for anyone who happens to be coming up on this discussion that, you know, what this ordinance requires is simply if you have a television and it has closed captioning, turn it on. That's it, right? If it doesn't, you're good, no worries. It's simply, if you have the button to push, push the button. And so hopefully if, like I said, if complaints do come in or if more folks do become aware of the ordinance, they'll understand that it's really intended to be, while very meaningful for folks for whom quick caption is the only way they can fully participate in viewing something, um it's tend to be a soft touch right and so um i just wanted to reiterate that fact that was very much part of the conversation when um the good chair and i were both in a different committee i'm putting this uh putting this together with with the uh input assistance from director narkani and others um you know but it it While I understand all of the other context that maybe creates that friction, the ordinance itself is really pretty soft, right? If you have it, turn it on. That's all, right? That's all, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Willie Burnley	Thank you. And I'll just add on to that a little bit. And I did not feel the need to give too much context of the ordinance, knowing that Councilor Davis was there when it was written and drafted. But the council intentionally did not include any signs associated with this ordinance, did not include any heavy hand intentionally, because this is meant to be an inclusion of members of our community in the same way that the city now has a Braille, for example, which can be used for folks who want to engage with city processes, but would have otherwise had to wait weeks potentially to even have materials to look at. I think I'm personally satisfied with that response at this point. As I mentioned before, I do think that there are ways that we can continue to do outreach to local businesses, but frankly, also to the public. I'll note as someone who has passed a number of laws, some of which come with the need to call 311 if you have an issue, a lot of people don't call 311. A lot of people don't know that they can reach out to make certain complaints. I want to be mindful of that as well. And, uh, I, I believe that there's a way to, um, strategize around how best to make sure that, uh, the public is aware of this, uh, and that there can be a more of a sense of collaboration around this rather than, um, scolding or, uh, forcefulness in its implementation. Director, did you want to add on something?
SPEAKER_09	Yeah, I definitely appreciate that sentiment. I think that's been our concern is really how do we carry that message about it being collaborative? I think the fact that it is tied to the license, there's a, again, there's a lot of risk right now, right? Our business owners are really feeling that like, Are you really like, I can, I can, I'm anticipating the conversation of, wait a second, there's another thing I have to think about. I'm already worrying about my pricing changing every single day. And I'm already worrying about that, like that person who walked by and looked in the window and stared might've been somebody who was going to report on my staff person. down the road. And I'm, and I like the, the level of anxiety that our business owners feel on a daily basis and it's extra heightened right now, but it's, it doesn't ever really go below a near boiling point for a small business owner that like figuring out a way to share this information in a way that doesn't come across as, um, An extra level of scrutiny is a delicate balance. And that's been my concern from the beginning with this is how do we share that information? I don't know that my team being the ones who are the first purveyors of that information is going to lead to a positive result because they're used to coming to our team with saying, I got this information. I need help navigating. Help me figure out how to get through it. our team is really, really strong in their ability to do that. We have a lot of trust in our business community to come to our team and ask when they've got a question of, there's this thing I didn't know I need to do, help me get there. But if we're the ones carrying the first message of you have to do this thing, that I worry will erode that trust in turning to us when it comes to time to actually do the thing and get and seek help.
Willie Burnley	Thank you, Director. Message received. Again, potentially there's, your department is certainly not the only department that can be involved, and it's not the only stakeholder here, certainly. I appreciate the comment around delicate balance, and I would just emphasize the balance piece, which is, it's not nothing, it's not all, but it is a balance, which means when we have laws, they should mean something, but also they don't have to mean big government staring over your shoulder and telling you how to live your life. Any other comments from committee members? All right. Seeing none, I'm going to ask that the clerk marks this work complete at this point. And that, I see that Councilor Pineda-Newfeld motions to adjourn. Can we get a roll call on that?
SPEAKER_07	Yes, on adjournment. Councilor Davis? Yes. President Pineda-Newfeld?
SPEAKER_03	Yes.
SPEAKER_07	Chair Burnley? Aye. Three in favor, none opposed. meeting is adjourned, I think you say.
Willie Burnley	Yes, we do. Thank you very much. See you all later. Bye.