City Council - Special Meeting

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Meeting Title: City Council - Special Meeting
City: Cambridge, MA
Date Published: 2025-07-23

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AI Disclaimer: Summaries and transcripts above were created by various AI tools. By their nature, these tools will produce mistakes and inaccuraies. Links to the official meeting recordings are provided for verification. If you find an error, please report it to somervillecivicpulse at gmail dot com.

Time & Speaker	Transcript
SPEAKER_10	Paula, can you hear me? Yes I can.
Denise Simmons	Betsy, how are you? Good afternoon, Clara. How are you?
SPEAKER_03	Can you hear me?
Denise Simmons	I can.
SPEAKER_03	Perfect. Thank you.
Catherine Zusy	Hello, Denise.
Denise Simmons	Hey, Paula. Hey, Nicole. Do we have anybody signed up for public comment?
SPEAKER_03	Yes, as of right now, there are two, Madam Mayor.
Denise Simmons	Okay. And how long, let's see. The meeting starts at two. We hold public comment open until 2.30? Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_03	It says you can sign up to 10.30 a.m.
	Oh.
SPEAKER_03	2.30, sorry, madam.
SPEAKER_04	Okay, let me shrink this over.
Catherine Zusy	Denise, are you traveling?
	Hi.
Kathy Watkins	Hey, Kathy. Good afternoon.
Denise Simmons	Are there only two of us so far?
SPEAKER_03	Yes, Madam Mayor. I just got a text from Vice Mayor McGovern saying he's having a tough time getting into the room, but he's not listed in the attendee part either.
Denise Simmons	Well, he gets us to three. We need two more people if he gets on or when he gets on.
SPEAKER_14	Paula, can you reply to Vice Mayor McGovern? Oh, I see he's on. I'll make sure he was in the right. Yeah, the right.
Yi-An Huang	Yeah, no. i'm here i don't know i don't know what's going on hello how are you i'm not gonna complain
SPEAKER_03	Vice Mayor McGovern looks like he's gone.
SPEAKER_14	Oh, I still see him. I see his name. He's still on. He just turned his camera on.
SPEAKER_03	I'm not showing his name on mine.
SPEAKER_06	Oh, we see his name.
SPEAKER_03	There he is. Now I can see him. I can see him now.
Catherine Zusy	Oh, Berhan's here too. We've got, yeah, we have five. We have five.
SPEAKER_03	Council Azusi, I was just getting ready to let the mayor know that.
Denise Simmons	Okay, very good. Good afternoon. A quorum been present. I call today, July 23rd, 2025 special city council meeting to order. The call of the meeting is as follows. The city council will hold a special meeting on Wednesday, July 23rd, 2025 at 2 p.m. The purpose of this meeting is to discuss updates on 221 Mount Auburn Street and the actions the city is taking to protect public health and public safety. In addition, the city council may meet in executive session to discuss litigation regarding 221 Mount Auburn Street, because discussing this in open session may have a detrimental effect on the city's litigating position. The first order of business is a call the role of the members present. I will turn it over to Interim Clerk, Paula Crane to call the role. Councilor Azeem.
SPEAKER_03	Present. Present. Vice-Mayor McGovern. Present. Present. Councilor Nolan.
Patricia Nolan	Present.
SPEAKER_03	Present. Councilor Siddiqui. Absent. Councilor Sobrinho-Wheeler. Present. Present. Councilor Toner. Absent. Councilor Wilson? Absent. Councilor Zusy? Present. Present. Mayor Simmons?
Denise Simmons	Present and audible.
SPEAKER_03	Present and audible. And you have six members recorded as present and three recorded as absent.
Denise Simmons	Thank you, Madam Clerk. Now that the roll has been called, please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance and pause for a moment of silence remembering Crystal Harris. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Pursuant to, sorry about the pause. Thank you. Pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, adopted by Massachusetts General Court and approved by the governor, the city is authorized to use remote participation in meetings of the Cambridge City Council. And in addition to having members of the city council participate remotely, we have also set up Zoom teleconference for public comment. You can also view the meeting via the city's open meeting portal or on the city's cable channel, channel 22. To speak during public comment, you must sign up at www.cambridgema.gov backslash public comment. You can also email written comments for the record to the city clerk. at cityclerk at cambridgema.gov. We welcome your participation and you can sign up up until 2 30. Please note that the City of Cambridge audio and video records these meetings and makes it available for the public for future viewings. In addition third parties may also be audio and video recording these public meetings. We'll now move to public comment. Public comment is made in accordance with the Massachusetts general laws, chapter 38, section 20 G and the city council rules 23 D and 37. Once you're finished speaking, the next speaker will be called. Individuals are not permitted to allocate the remainder of their time to other speakers. Please state your name and address for the record and the item that you're speaking to. We have, I believe two speakers. Okay. Yes. Madam mayor.
SPEAKER_03	Also, I want to note the councilor Wilson. Is in the Council of Wilson?
Denise Simmons	Present. Thank you. Is anyone else just joining us? Or is it just Council Wilson? Okay, just Council Wilson. Very good. There are, I believe, two people signed up for public comment. So we're going to turn public comment over to Ms. Naomi Stephan. Ms. Stephan, the floor is yours.
SPEAKER_14	Thank you, Madam Mayor. Our first speaker is Anne Saada. Ann, you have three minutes.
SPEAKER_01	Please go ahead. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Good afternoon. My name is Ann Saada. My current address is 60 Larchwood Drive in Cambridge, but my recent and more relevant address is 221 Mount Auburn Street, the subject of this meeting. I'm here this afternoon as President of the Board of Trustees of the Riverview and Cambridge Condo Trust to represent the Riverview community as the Council meets to consider the City Manager's request for funds to demolish the building my neighbors and I called home until we had to evacuate it last December. I want to thank Mayor Simmons for calling this special meeting, the Council for focusing at short notice on a complex and in many ways unprecedented situation, and the amazing team assembled by the City Manager and led by the Deputy City Manager, Thank you all for wading through hundreds of pages of engineering reports and construction documents commissioned by the Condo Association during a painstaking and often very painful 18-month investigation. That investigation indicated that our main building is at risk of uncontrolled collapse. When we evacuated the nine-story, 65-unit building in December 2024, we still hoped it could be repaired. Then we learned that it could not be repaired. In fact, it could not even be shored. We did not have and could not raise the means to demolish it. The stress of an apparently insoluble public safety threat compounded the stress of losing our homes and our community. Riverview, which included a second 14-unit building, was a vibrant place, but it was also a naturally occurring retirement community. At least four of the owners who evacuated in December of last year had lived in the building since 1972. The demographic of the association is elderly, it's often female, often single or widowed, and often coping with significant health difficulties. We think the average age is north of 75. It's not a good age at which to lose your main asset and your support network and be forced to move. In its conversations with us over the past several weeks, the city has expressed sympathy for our plight, but it has also repeatedly and consistently emphasized that its overriding goal is to protect public safety, and that if the council approves the appropriation currently under discussion, the city will recover the money spent on the demolition from the condo owners at the conclusion of the project. We're in a sense the incidental beneficiaries of the city's proactive defense of public safety, and so we're doubly grateful. As citizens, we're grateful to be living in a city that puts public health and safety first and finds concrete and immediate ways to address complex challenges. As incidental beneficiaries, we're grateful to be living in a municipality that can organize positive some solutions, solutions where everyone comes out ahead. Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
SPEAKER_14	Our next speaker is Jayden Rowerdink. Jayden, if you can unmute yourself, you have three minutes. Please go ahead.
SPEAKER_08	Hi, can you guys hear me? Yes, please go ahead. Perfect. Thank you. Hi, my name is Jane Rowerdink and I live at Four Longfellow Road, Cambridge, Massachusetts. And with Mount Auburn being closed due to the Riverview demolition, detour traffic is tearing through rattle and nearby streets at 40 to 50 miles per hour and 25 mile per hour zones. This is not just disruptive, it's dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists and families who live along these roads. The engine and tire noise from these speeding cars is constant, adding another layer of stress on top of the construction activity. I'm asking the council and the traffic department to treat these detour routes as part of the demolition safety plan, install temporary speeding cameras, increase fines like we do in construction zones, and provide weekly updates so residents know what safety measures are in place. We understand the building needs to come down quickly, but the surrounding neighborhoods also need protection while this project moves forward. Thank you.
SPEAKER_14	Madam Mayor, that was all that were currently signed up to speak.
SPEAKER_03	Madam Mayor, Councilor Toner is also in the Zoom, just got in.
Denise Simmons	Thank you. Let the record show that Councilor Toner has joined the meeting.
SPEAKER_14	Madam Mayor, apologies for the interruption. You do have one more person who has their hand raised. I know that it's practice to let folks speak in this type of setting if they weren't able to sign up.
Denise Simmons	If I'm hearing no objection from my council colleagues and I don't see any hands raised, Mr. Fenn, please call on the person.
SPEAKER_14	Harriet Gressinger, you have three minutes. Please go ahead. Harriet, you'll need to unmute yourself and then you have the floor.
SPEAKER_07	Thank you. I did try to sign up under public comment. My name is Harriet Griesinger. My current address is 11 Granville Road number one in Cambridge. I moved here last December after the evacuation of 221 Mount Auburn Street, the building where I lived, which is on the agenda of this meeting. I AM HERE AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF RIVER VIEW AND CAMBRIDGE CONDOMINIUM TRUST TO REPRESENT THE RIVER VIEW COMMUNITY TO THE COUNCIL AND THE CITY STAFF TO CONSIDER AS THE CITY COUNCIL MEETS TO CONSIDER THE MANAGER'S REQUEST FOR THE MONEY AND THE AUTHORITY TO DEMOLISH OUR FORMER HOME. AND I THANK THE MAYOR AND THE COUNCIL MEMBERS FOR COMING IN SO UNEXPECTEDLY ON SHORT NOTICE TO LISTEN TO THIS URGENT AND COMPLEX SITUATION. THE BUILDING IS TOO WEAK REPAIR. IT IS AT RISK OF UNCONTROLLED COLLAPSE. IT IS NEAR OTHER HOMES AND PATHWAYS. IT CONTAINS ASBESTOS IN ALMOST ALL UNITS. THE BUILDING HAS BECOME A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE AND SHOULD BE DEMOLISHED. but we the owners do not have and could not borrow the money to cover the demolition. Most of us are older folks, I am 85. Many have put their last cent into their condo with the expectation that they were leaving something nice to their heirs. And now that asset on which we are still paying real estate taxes should be demolished and carted away. I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROPOSED ALLOCATION OF MONEY MEANS TO THE CAMBRIDGE TAXPAYER. I HAVE BEEN ONE FOR A LONG TIME. I MOVED HERE IN 1968 AFTER TWO YEARS AFTER GETTING A JOB IN CAMBRIDGE, AND I'VE BEEN A TAXPAYING PROPERTY OWNER SINCE 1971. AND IN FACT, I SPOKE AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON A PREVIOUS HEALTH ISSUE IN 1987 WHEN THE SMOKING ORDINANCE WAS FIRST PASSED. I THANK THESE MEMBERS HERE TODAY FOR THEIR CONSIDERATION AND THEIR TIME SPENT EVALUATING THE APPROPRIATION if the council approves the appropriation the money will be recovered from us the owners by very large charges on our tax bills and it will be paid before any owner receives any money from the sale thank you for your time and consideration on the proposed project which is so important to public safety in cambridge madam mayor that concludes all the speakers
Denise Simmons	Thank you, Ms. Stevan. We'll now return to the agenda. We will come back and close public comment at 2.30. So what's before us? Let me read the city management. Madam Mayor?
SPEAKER_03	Yes. I'm sorry to interrupt. We have Councilor Siddiqui is present.
Denise Simmons	Please let the president show that Councilor Siddiqui is present and audible. I'm going to read the city manager's agenda item number one, which we'll bring it before us. And then we'll hear from the deputy city manager and the city manager. and whoever else from the city manager's team that wants to speak to this. Please note if there's any questions that you'd like to ask, those questions have to be asked in the executive session. Let me read the manager's recommendation. Transmitting communication from Yan Wang, city manager, relative to the appropriation of 20 million from the general fund employee benefits department, salary and wages account to the general fund reserve department extraordinary expenditure account to fund expenses relative to the demolition of 221 Mount Auburn Street. This is city manager's agenda item number 186. The agenda item of the city manager being before us, I'll turn this discussion over to deputy city manager, Kathy Watkins for opening remarks. And I do see our city manager is on the line as well as Megan Baer. So there's opening remarks, but not questions to be asked. We will take them after we hear from Deputy City Manager Watkins. Deputy City Manager Watkins, the floor is yours.
Kathy Watkins	Sure, thank you. And I don't know, City Manager, if you want to make opening remarks first or defer to you if you want me to go ahead and start.
Yi-An Huang	Sure, maybe I would just say thank you as well to Mayor Simmons for calling this important meeting. I think especially given some of the timing, we felt like it was important to get this on the agenda and be able to move quickly. You know this really has been a tragic and unprecedented situation in the city has been working really hard on this over the last seven weeks. And really from the beginning, focused on ensuring that we understand the data that we're seeing assessing the risk and and really thinking about. public safety and how we're supporting both residents, neighbors, and the community at large. I do really want to thank Deputy City Manager Watkins for jumping in in her really first week in this new role and coordinating a lot of the work across a number of departments and it really has been a full city effort, especially across the law department, inspectional services, DPW, traffic, finance, communications, community engagement, to both really evaluate what the situation was and the responsibilities that we felt like we had as a city. And we really recognize we are making tough choices. And so to the traffic impacts, to the cost and the effort to do this work. It really is difficult decisions, but also really wanna say it's been the residents of the Riverview condos that have been the most impacted. We have felt that throughout this project, and want to call out really Anne and the Condo Association for their empathy, the seriousness with which they have taken this entire journey, the professionalism that they've done. I think it's hard to manage, I think for any of us who have been part of a condo association. It is a difficult task and they've really done a tremendous job and we've been blessed to be working with such a great group of individuals. You know, maybe the last comment I would say is that it's been really important as we've gone through this process over the last weeks to be really transparent. We've tried to communicate really clearly with the council as well as with both the residents of the building, the neighbors in the community. There's a website that has shared all of the relevant documents and Kathy will talk through more of that. We also held an in-person community meeting two weeks ago and have another virtual meeting scheduled for tomorrow. on Thursday, July 24th. And staff have really been meeting with abutters to have an opportunity to share information, but also to have more questions, difficult questions answered. So I think we've really seen this as an incredibly important and sensitive and difficult series of conversations, but one we've really taken very seriously and just appreciate the council for coming together and hope that we can keep moving forward. So I'll turn it over to Kathy and thank you again for creating the space and for us to be able to process this together as a community.
Denise Simmons	Thank you. City Manager Yields, the floor, Deputy City Manager Watkins. The floor is yours. Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Kathy Watkins	I'll go through just a really high-level overview. I think with the agenda, we shared the presentation from the last community meeting to try to make sure people had the full context. I think it's worthwhile sort of stepping through a little bit of the process and then maybe also ask City Solicitor Behr to sort of step in and sort of walk through the sort of, you know, the legal process that's also associated with this. You know, as, you know, and the board president talked about, Riverview Condos was really doing, the responsible work in terms of maintaining the building. So back in 2023, they were undertaking work to replace the roof and also improve drainage. When they did that, they identified some unexpected conditions in some of the balconies where they were coring through with the new drainage connections. And that sort of led them down this path of doing investigations into the building. So they identified, you know, we call it sort of structural reinforcing steel or rebar. That was not where they expected it to be and then also some significant cracking that they had not seen and so again really trying to be proactive in terms of maintaining the buildings. You know they brought in sgh, which is a very reputable I say well known well respected engineering consulting construction engineering firm to really analyze the entire building. And when they did that, they found sort of two major significant issues that are really throughout the building. And those are both associated with construction defects. So if you think about a building has a concrete slab that may be eight or nine inches, part of where it gets that strength is that there's structural rebar in there. That rebar needs to be at a specific location. When they analyzed... When they analyzed it, they found they were consistently about two inches lower than they were specified to be. So again, not constructed per original design drawings. And then they also analyzed the strength of the concrete of the building itself. And that concrete should have been 3,000 pounds per square inch. And it was found on average to be 2,000 pounds per square inch. So again, another significant way that the building was not constructed according to the design plans. And so with that, SGH really went through and did a full analysis of the building to understand what would it take to repair the building there was always this you know we have great homes and we want to maintain it and repair the building so they went through you know a major process of designing what that would look like and the cost of that you know was getting up to 80 million or even more when you sort of look at that sort of fully loaded cost to repair the building and as they really dug into it determined that the structural conditions of the building were so compromised that that wasn't really feasible And so then they came to the very sad conclusion that the building needed to be demolished. And so they were working with SGH and then, you know, also a large contractor to figure out how to proceed with that and really determined that they could not get that, pull that together as a condo association. So they had reached out to the city sort of late May. A city manager indicated we've been meeting with them, I would say, you know, multiple times a week. since early June with the condo association, as well as their various representatives to understand one that we really wanted to go through this process of making sure that they had taken every step they could. I think we, you know, the city does not take lightly going on to private property and doing work on private property, nor encumbering significant finance, you know, resources in terms of that kind of work. And so we've really been walking through this with them to make sure that they really have taken every step have concluded that they have um so then air process has been you know isd sort of formally notified the board that they you know it is a public safety and public health situation that they need to demolish the building they've determined that they cannot do that um so then the city has had the board of survey come in and for folks that aren't familiar the board of survey you know is a three-member board that includes the building inspector, the city engineer, the fire chief, and then an outside independent engineer to help advise the board of survey. And they evaluate the structural condition of the buildings. And then again, make recommendations about what's necessary to protect public health and public safety. And so that board also concurred that the building needs to be demolished. And so we've now put, you know, sent that out. That just came out yesterday and put sort of the condo association on notice again, that they need to demolish the building and then under state law. And again, city solicitor bear can speak more to this. That gives the city the authority to then do the work if they're not able to do it. So those are sort of the steps that we've been going through. And I think also as city manager mentioned, we've been meeting extensively with folks both in the broader community, but then also really focusing a lot of attention on the immediate abutters that are the most impacted by this work. So we probably met with, you know, we had a meeting with the 221 board. We've also met with, you know, all of the property owners and residents that are living in the immediate properties adjacent to the building to make sure we're sharing this information being as transparent as city manager talked about with this information as we can there's a lot of uncertainty around the building we talk about and there's some images in the presentation that talk about the type of failure people are concerned about and that's called punching shear and that's where you have this connection between the columns and the slab so each of those points they sgh has analyzed and determined that a significant number of those connections are defined under building code to be potentially dangerous and in need of addressing. We also, as we were going through this process, they did that analysis looking at the full load of the building. So looking at the weight of the building, the occupants of the building, what are all those sort of the weight that the building needs to support and including snow loads. And so that was the initial analysis that SGH had done and the Condo Association and the consultants have been very focused on Getting demolition before snow falls, because that's additional weight on the building. And so I think, you know, when they're coming to us at the end of May, early June. It's with the realization that they were not going to be able to get this building demolished this year. And so that was really of concern in terms of adding additional load. With the snow loads. So we had SGH go through, also do an analysis that said, you know, how does the building function without the snow load? And even taking that load off, there are still, you know, a significant number of those column to slab connections that are potentially dangerous. And so that is really when it became clear that the city needed to step in in terms of, again, protecting public health and safety. So that has been our focus. And I would say it's a very quickly evolving situation. We do have a lot of information on the website. We've actively been working on how quickly can we move forward with contracts to get this work done. There is a real commitment to try to get this work done. significantly underway this fall. So again, to reduce, we talk a lot throughout the presentation at the community meeting and as we've been meeting with folks about really reducing risk. And so how do we reduce risk associated with this building? And so one of the ways is to get the building underway, significantly underway before we get snowfall. The Condo Association has also, with their contractor, been disconnecting utilities, one, in terms of preparing the building for demolition, but also in terms of reducing risk. So we do not want to have a gas service connected into a vacant building. We don't want to have a water service connected into a vacant building. So that if there are leaks and there's no one on site, that's not the best situation. So in terms of reducing risk, that's really what we've been focused on. I think, you know, one of the things I just want to touch on a little bit is sort of the cost. I think, you know, the $20 million, I want to be really clear, is a really significant cost. And there are a lot of unknowns associated with this work. So we believe that the $20 million is sort of a pretty conservative number. We want to make sure that we have the resources in place that we can hire the contractors. and the consultants necessary to do this work safely. And so that's, so we've been, I would say a little on the conservative side, because again, we want to make sure that we can proceed with this work safely. And when we think about what are those costs, just want to be really clear. You know, we talk about the demolition costs and that's a significant piece of the work. There's also, this is a very complex demolition project. Given the condition of the building, we will not be able to approach it as a traditional demolition. So with the traditional demolition, you would have contractors go in and do a significant amount of work in the building before you actually demolish the concrete, right? So you would have them remove any asbestos. You would have them remove any remaining materials in the building. Like there's still appliances in the building. You would have all that removed before. Given the concerns about the building, that will not be able to happen. So the building will need to be demolished and all of the material treated as hazardous material and disposed of such. And so that adds a significant level of uncertainty and also cost. And the typical building, if you're just removing the concrete, there's a cost of disposing of that. If you're disposing of it all as hazardous material, that cost increase sort of five to 10 times. And so there's a significant cost associated with that. There's also a significant amount of engineering and planning and permitting that needs to go into this demolition. Given the structural concerns and also the hazardous materials associated with the building, we need to have a really strong team of structural engineers and environmental consultants that are working with the contractor developing the safest plan possible. And so as we do that, that is also a significant part of the cost. And then just to be clear, in terms of the permitting, any work associated with asbestos like this would be permitted through DEP. So we've already started those conversations with DEP. When this first happened, the city manager reached out to the governor's office and really brought in a number of state partners to make sure that we were getting the help and resources that we needed from the state. um and they've been super helpful and supportive and really engaging with us on these details so um i'd say that's sort of the high level overview of the cost and again just to reiterate there are a lot of unknowns and uncertainties here and so we've been a little on the conservative side um the intent is to you know manage cost as closely as we can we are not looking to charge the condo owners more than we need to but we also need to go back to how removing this doing the demolition of this building and managing public health and public safety so again i think that has been one of the themes throughout this process in terms of um you know our commitment and again our role um and before i turn it back to the mayor um and maybe megan um city solicitor if you want to talk a little bit about sort of the process and um the lean process
SPEAKER_11	Sure. Thank you. Through you, Madam Mayor. So as Kathy explained, we have authority under state law that lets the city undertake this work when there's been a termination that there's a dangerous building and the owner either is unable to or has refused to do the work themselves. So this is all found in Chapter 143 of the general laws. This is in place for the purposes of protecting public safety so that if there is a situation in a municipality with a dangerous building and the owner is not doing anything, that the city can step in and take action on private property to protect public safety. I think there have been some questions about is this an eminent domain taking? Will the city own the property? So I just want to be clear that that is not the case. We're not, the city is not operating under the eminent domain statute to take ownership. Instead, just the city is going to exercise its authority to abate the dangerous situation. So to demolish the building in the interest of public safety. There is in the statute a mechanism for the city to recover the costs. so the the costs associated with demolition become a debt owed to the city so the owners would have um some personal financial liability but in order to really protect the city's interests not only are the property owners liable to the city for that debt but if it remains unpaid the city can record a statement of the debt at the registry of deeds, and then that debt can get, becomes a lien placed on the property with the same type of priority status that a tax lien has. So the costs to do the demolition work will have first priority to recover if there is a sale of the property or even if there was a situation where a property wasn't being sold and the debt wasn't paid. It's a potential to recover with a tax title taking where the city could then force a sale of the property to recover the funds. So the plan here is for the city to incur the debt associated with doing the work, but then to later recover that debt through the statutory mechanism. We're also planning, although the city has the authority to do all this work without taking further steps in court, we are planning on filing a case in court in the next few days to get a court order confirming the city's authority to do all of the work before any demolition actually happens. If there are specific questions about that potential litigation and the litigation strategy, we can talk more about that in executive session. But I think if there's some more general questions about the work the city's doing and the appropriation, I think some of that could be discussed here in the open session. Thank you.
Denise Simmons	Thank you, Madam Solicitor. And so I'm going to open the floor to my colleagues, but Madam Solicitor, if you feel like we're wading into executive session waters, just speak out and then we'll close that conversation and move into executive session. But if the questions, if there are any, are general and can be answered in open session, if I don't see anything from you, take the question. So is there any discussion from the floor? I see Councilor Nolan's hand. Councilor Nolan, the floor is yours.
Patricia Nolan	Thank you, Mayor Simmons and through you. Thank you to the staff. I know this is absorbed as a city manager laid out many, many probably every city department to address this very challenging situation and to the board members. Thank you for speaking. It is truly a tragic situation where I know many of the residents have literally just lost their entire life savings. in this situation it is it is just stunning and no matter what happens with all this they are not likely to get that back it just is impossible given the the situation i i believe these questions would be um that they're not about litigation strategy or the lawsuit first of all i do want to clarify there's a few questions have been raised not about this specific issue but around the decisions around traffic etc those are not appropriate for this meeting is that correct
Denise Simmons	Ms. Behr, Solicitor Behr.
SPEAKER_11	Thank you, through you, Madam Mayor. The topics here are this appropriation request for the demolition work, the background on the work that the city is doing for demolition, and then potentially an executive session, litigation questions. So I think the questions or issues around traffic relate. So I don't think they're necessarily outside the scope of this meeting, but they may be things that are, you know, better answered offline, but I don't think it's a problem.
Denise Simmons	I'm going to lean into what the solicitor is saying. Rather to go into uncharted waters, and I would sort of lean into and encourage my colleagues, any conversation can be given or taken with a solicitor or the city manager or deputy city manager offline at a part of the meeting. I just want us to be very cautious that we don't break the seal of what executive session would call for. The most important thing for us, and I do appreciate your question, Councilor Nolan, I think it's an important one, but I also want to make sure that we hold very closely to the scope of what is being asked and actually the call is to vote on the appropriation. And so I would just respectfully ask that we might wanna hold that question and you could certainly have it offline.
Patricia Nolan	Councilor? Yeah, thank you, Mayor Simmons. Yeah, I do think the community as a whole, there's been a number of questions related to the ancillary effects of this, and I think it would be good to have not just offline, but perhaps just a memo about in response to some of those questions, because those have been raised by a number of issues, and they are related partly to the demolition. So, but I understand.
Denise Simmons	Councilor, I would absolutely agree. You're absolutely right. And what I think what we will do is with the city manager and appropriate staff, write, put a memo together that will be sent out to the owners so that they can, first of all, we want to, so again, let me just acknowledge, very good question. I'm glad you asked it. I'm glad you asked it on the record so that folks that might be tuning in will know what we're thinking about and that we're taking their concerns into question. as I said earlier, because it's not quite in the scope, we may not want to answer it now. And it does not preclude us or exclude us from having a meeting at another time where the community can be apprised on an ongoing basis, not just the people who are the owners, but the neighborhood as a whole can be brought into the conversation. So respectfully, I'd ask, counselor, let us send that letter out. Of course, it will go to the council as well. but to the neighbors. And then I think it'd be very good for us. And we've done this already to do with, again, which is to have a community based meeting, just to bring everybody engaged to go to the neighborhood and have a conversation with them or as many people that can attend. Does that help council?
Patricia Nolan	Yeah, that answers that. And there is a community meeting tomorrow that will be on Zoom. So some of these questions will be asked and raised. I just know the more we cannot under communicate on this because so many of these questions have been raised. I did have a question directly related to the appropriation, which is not about litigation strategy for the court case, but it's It sounds like the memo, the accompanying material for this was suggesting that the funds would be appropriated from a particular category of our finance and not from free cash, and I'm just curious as to what the reasoning for that is, and is that something we can better understand? Usually when we have this kind of appropriation, I would have expected it to come from free cash, and I just wanted to understand what the financial...
Denise Simmons	Very good question. Let me just look in the direction of our solicitor. Does that fall within the scope and does not break the seal on the executive session?
SPEAKER_11	To you, Madam Mayor, I think that's fine for Claire Spinner or Taha Jennings to speak to.
Denise Simmons	Okay, so we do have Director Jennings and we have our CFO, Ms. Spinner here. Either of them. CFO Spinner, do you want I shouldn't say that because I really don't like those terms. Chief Financial Officer Spinner, would you like to address this question or do you want me to defer to Director Jennings?
SPEAKER_12	Thank you, Mayor Simmons. I'll speak to the matter. I think as we wrote in our recommendation that ultimately this is going to be... we are going to need a free cash appropriation. But as you probably remember, each year after the close of a fiscal year, we go through a process of a financial reconciliation with the state so that the state can actually certify our free cash amounts. And we're in that process now. So typically the cities go through this process over the summer and into the early fall, and the state will certify our available free cash amount, usually typically sometime towards the end of September, early October. And until then, we do not actually have access to directly make a transfer from our free cash amount. So we are temporarily transferring some funds from our employee benefits account, where we hold our budget for health insurance, which is a very large budget, but we take 12 months to expend it. And as we mentioned, as the city manager's recommendation specifies, we anticipate that in October, once our free cash amount is certified, will be coming back to the City Council for a free cash appropriation to replenish the employee benefits account.
Denise Simmons	Ms. Spinner, are you yielding the floor?
SPEAKER_12	Yes, I am. Sorry about that.
Denise Simmons	Ms. Spinner yields the floor. Mr. Jennings, is there anything that you need to add before I give the floor back to Councilor Nolan?
SPEAKER_14	No, thank you, Madam Mayor.
Denise Simmons	Councilor Nolan, back to you.
	Yeah.
Patricia Nolan	Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Looking just at the agenda, it would seem like we're just taking it out of employee benefits. And I appreciate getting it on record so that someone asked, why would this be the case if you didn't read the memo? So I'm glad that ACM Spinner clarified that. I'm sad about this case. Very sad. uh disappointed we're here and also of course completely supportive of moving forward i think there's you know as we get into this there'll be other questions about whether the full 20 million is enough if it's not enough if it even i i'm not sure if well it's a conservative number if the value of the land is not $20 million. If we spend $20 million and the value of the land is not $20 million, it sounds like we have also been told what the other avenues are for ensuring that the city will get paid back the money. So I am satisfied with that for now. As challenging as it is to consider doing this, I will be supportive of this appropriation. Thank you, Mayor Simmons. I yield.
Denise Simmons	Councilman Mullen yields the floor. Council Susie, the floor is yours.
Catherine Zusy	Thank you very much, Madam Mayor. Two questions building on Councilor Nolan's questions. One is, do we have an idea, an estimate for the value of the land? And my second question is, I understand from the Condo Association lawyer that the lawyers will be working to dissolve the association over the next year. So my question is, which entity will be repaying the city and what entity will be selling the property ultimately. Thank you.
Denise Simmons	I'm just gonna go to Solicitor Behr to make sure that it's been the scope of our meeting and does not break the seal of executive session should we need to answer this question.
SPEAKER_11	Thank you to you and through you, Madam Mayor. I think we can answer those questions to the best we can here in open session, and I'll take the second part. So my understanding from communications with counsel for the Condo Association is that the Condo Association will be going through what's called a partition action in land court, and that will allow them to dissolve the condo trust the condo association and then all of the current condo owners will all be owners of the property as tenants in common which is a form of ownership if multiple people own a piece of property they often hold it as tenants in common and then from there the court determines what percentage interest in that property as a whole each owner has Because of that parallel track land court case that will be happening while the city is going through its own litigation and demolition, we don't know yet exactly what the status of the property will be when we are leaning it, whether it will be still owned as a condo form of ownership or whether it'll be owned just as one property, but we will be following closely the Land Court case so that when it is time to put a lien on the property, we're able to know what the ownership status is and put the appropriate lien on the property.
Denise Simmons	And I yield. So let's the bear yields the floor. Is there any follow-up? I think I might want to hear from the deputy city manager as well.
Kathy Watkins	Yes, Mayor Simmons. You know, in terms of the value of the land, and this goes to a lot of the questions that we're getting from folks, is that there are a lot of questions coming in that we don't necessarily know the answers to. I would point out that we do have a frequently asked questions document on the website. I know there's a little bit of a detour, but it's relevant to some of the questions that are coming up and that We're providing information there and sharing as much as we can. So I think some of the questions we're sharing information there. You know, what has been indicated to us is that the value of the land would be in excess of $20 million. I think there's a lot of questions about what that number is, but I would say that that's sort of the information that we have received to the state.
Denise Simmons	Thank you, Deputy City Manager Watkins. Council Zusy, back to you.
Catherine Zusy	Thank you. And again, through you, Madam Mayor. And so once the Condo Association is dissolved, will the board of the Condo Association still be the presiding body for the non-existent Condo Association? So who will be in charge of selling the property after the Condo Association is dissolved?
SPEAKER_11	Through you, Madam Mayor. So I can't fully answer that not knowing all of the technical ins and outs of the land court partition process. But I believe the land court will be involved through a sale of the property for that reason.
Denise Simmons	Deputy City Manager, do you want to add anything? No, I yield.
Catherine Zusy	Thank you, Mayor. Councillor Susi? Thank you very much. Thank you.
Denise Simmons	Councillor Susi yields the floor for the discussion from the Council.
SPEAKER_04	Councillor Siddiqui? Hi, yeah, thank you. Just to clarify something, the process that the solicitor talked about with and so forth and recouping the costs. That's an unfair timeline, correct? I just want to, I know.
Denise Simmons	I don't know about anyone else, counselor, but your sound quality is going in and out. Sorry about that. Thank you. Ask your question again.
SPEAKER_04	My question was the timeline that So just to follow up on the solicitor's point around recouping and trying to recoup this 20 million at some point, that timeline, that is really contingent on a number of things, correct?
Denise Simmons	Solicitor, did you hear Council Siddiqui fair enough?
SPEAKER_11	I think so. Through you, Madam Mayor, I think she was saying the timeline for recovering the money is contingent on a number of things. And others can chime in. I think that is accurate. We have to incur the costs before we can try to recover them. And I think there are a lot of you know, hard to predict things still wheels in motion. And then once all the costs have been incurred under the statute, there is specific timelines we will have to meet in order to protect the lien, cover the costs, but we don't even get there until after the costs have been incurred. I yield. Council Siddiqui?
Kathy Watkins	Mayor Simmons, can I just one real quick? Yes, absolutely. Deputy City Manager. And again, this is on the FAQ, so it's public information, but just in terms of the timeline, you know, the condominium associations, you know, representatives have indicated that, you know, they anticipated to take at least a year to go through that land court process that Solicitor Behr was mentioning. So there is definitely a timeline, you know, a process, because I think we've got a lot of questions about sort of the timeline for, you know, what will happen on the site and then also the money piece, but they do definitely anticipate it taking, you know, at least a year to go through that legal process.
Denise Simmons	Thank you, Deputy City Manager. Councilor Siddiqui, are you yielding the floor or you have a follow-up question? I yield, thank you. Councilor Siddiqui yields the floor. Further questions, comments from the Council? Hearing none, then I would like to entertain a motion on City Manager's agenda item number one on the appropriation. So on this, I heard the voice, but I'm sure who it was.
Patricia Nolan	Councilor Nolan.
Denise Simmons	Councilor Nolan on a motion by Councilor Nolan. to accept city manager's agenda item 2025, number 186, the appropriation of $20 million from the general fund employee benefits department salary and wages account, roll call to the general fund. Roll call, please.
SPEAKER_03	And place the matter on file, Madam Mayor?
Denise Simmons	If we can do that in one vote, yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes, we can. Councilor Zinn?
Denise Simmons	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Vice Mayor McGovern?
	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Yes. Counselor Nolan.
SPEAKER_06	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Counselor Siddiqui.
SPEAKER_06	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Counselor Sobrinho-Wheeler.
SPEAKER_06	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Counselor Toner.
SPEAKER_06	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Counselor Wilson. Counselor Wilson is absent. Counselor Zusy.
Catherine Zusy	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Mayor Simmons. Yes. Yes. And you have eight members recorded in the affirmative with one recorded as absent.
Denise Simmons	And the appropriation is approved by the affirmative vote. of eight members, one being recorded as absent. And the matter is also placed on file by the affirmative vote of eight members, one being recorded as absent. Madam Solicitor, do you need a vote for reconsideration?
SPEAKER_11	Thank you. That would be a good idea if someone wants to make that motion to suspend the rules.
SPEAKER_03	May I interrupt first? Deputy Clerk. Could we just take a roll call to place city manager agenda 2025 number 187 on file and then do the suspension for the reconsideration? Oh, I thought we had done that as one vote. We did that for CMA 2025 number 186. We still have to deal with 187, which is just the communication to move to executive session, which we will not be doing, it looks like. So we should just place that matter on file.
Denise Simmons	You can take... City Manager's agenda item number two and place that on file on a motion by the Vice Mayor. Discussion?
SPEAKER_03	Roll call. Councilor Zing. Yes. Yes. Vice Mayor McGovern. Yes. Yes. Councilor Nolan.
Patricia Nolan	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Councilor Siddiqui. Yes. Yes. Councilor Sobrinho-Wheeler. Yes. Yes. Councilor Toner. Yes. Yes. Councilor Wilson.
SPEAKER_10	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Councilor Zusy? Yes. Yes. Mayor Simmons?
Denise Simmons	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. And you have nine members recorded in the affirmative.
Denise Simmons	City Manager's agenda item number two is placed on file by the affirmative vote of eight members. One being recorded as absent. On reconsideration, is there... I'd like to entertain a motion.
Patricia Nolan	I move suspension for the purposes of reconsideration, hoping the same will not prevail. On suspension, discussion?
SPEAKER_03	Hearing none, roll call, please. Councilor Azeem? Yes. Yes. Vice Mayor McGovern? Yes. Yes. Councilor Nolan?
Patricia Nolan	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Councilor Siddiqui?
SPEAKER_06	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Councilor Sobrinho-Wheeler?
SPEAKER_06	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Councilor Toner?
SPEAKER_10	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Councilor Wilson?
SPEAKER_10	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Councilor Zusy? Yes. Yes. Mayor Simmons? Yes. Yes. And you have nine members recorded in the affirmative.
Denise Simmons	When the rules are suspended on the affirmative vote of eight members, one being recorded as absent, we now move to reconsideration, hoping the same will not be there.
SPEAKER_10	Excuse me, Madam Mayor?
Denise Simmons	Yes.
SPEAKER_10	I'm sorry, just a point of correction. You are saying that eight members, one member being absent, all members are present, correct?
Denise Simmons	Okay, I didn't, I could see your name, but I didn't hear you. So I will stand corrected and on the affirmative vote of nine members, the rules are suspended. We now move to reconsideration, hoping that the same will not prevail. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, please call the roll.
SPEAKER_03	Councilor Azeem. No. No, Vice Mayor McGovern. No. No. Councillor Nolan? No. No. Councillor Siddiqui? No. No. Councillor Sobrinho-Wheeler? No. No. Councillor Toner? Councillor Toner? Absent. Councillor Wilson?
SPEAKER_11	No.
SPEAKER_03	No. Councillor Zusy? No. No. Mayor Simmons? No. No, when you have eight members recorded in the negative with one recorded as absent.
Denise Simmons	Any consideration fails on the affirmative vote of eight members, one being recorded as absent. Any further items that need to be, let me take a, intend to vote to close public comment on a motion by the Vice Mayor to close public comment. Roll call, thank you.
SPEAKER_03	Councilor Azeem.
SPEAKER_04	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes, Vice Mayor McGovern. Yes. Yes. Counselor Nolan.
Patricia Nolan	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Counselor Siddiqui.
Patricia Nolan	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Counselor Sobrinho-Wheeler. Yes. Yes. Counselor Toner. Yes. Yes. Counselor Wilson.
SPEAKER_10	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Counselor Zusy.
SPEAKER_10	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Mayor Simmons.
Denise Simmons	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. And you have nine members recorded in the affirmative.
Denise Simmons	And public comment is closed on the affirmative vote of nine members. Pleasure of the city council.
SPEAKER_03	on a motion by motion to adjourn by the vice mayor to adjourn roll call please counselor zine yes yes vice mayor mcgovern yes yes counselor nolan yes yes counselor sadiki yes yes counselor Sobrinho-Wheeler yes yes counselor toner yes yes counselor wilson
SPEAKER_10	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. Councilor Zusy? Yes. Yes. Mayor Simmons?
SPEAKER_10	Yes.
SPEAKER_03	Yes. And you have nine members recorded in the affirmative.
Denise Simmons	This meeting is a special meeting of the city council is adjourned on the affirmative vote on nine members. Thank you everyone for your time this afternoon. Take good care.